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Should John Wall Join the D-League?

Many basketball observers are starting to talk about John Wall, the fifth-year high school senior who tore it up at the recent Nike Hoop Summit, who purposes flirted briefly with the idea of entering the NBA Draft.  Because he's in his fifth year, he's highlighted the ambiguity of the NBA age limit language, which states that players must wait until one year after their high school class has graduated before entering the league.

As I mentioned, several NBA bloggers have posted thoughts on Wall recently, including Bethlehem Shoals (twice), Tom Ziller, and Zach Harper at TalkHoops.  Ultimately, though, it appears Wall has decided not to go that route and is exploring colleges, including Florida.  What occurred to me, though, is why wouldn't Wall spend a year in the D-League?  The advantages would seem to be thus:

Star-divide

He'd be playing against all-around better competition, including guys who are already in the NBA.

The NCAA doesn't have the Chinese Magic Johnson, now does it?  If Wall needs to work on his outside shot, as this scouting report suggests, then what better environment to do it in than against Brent Petway or Othyus Jeffers?  The chances are very good that Wall wouldn't face a man defender of that caliber in college, and if he only spends one year in the NCAAs, he'd likely be able to skate by without putting much work into his game.

He'd be getting paid.

While the D-League pay is minimal, it's more than he would make in college, which is (theoretically) zero.  You could argue that he'd miss out on all of the free gear and other perks associated with a high-level D-1 basketball program, but it's not like he's going to be for want of shoes in a year anyway.  There has been more attention paid in the last few years on how much money upper-tier college athletes bring in for their schools, particularly in basketball and football, without any compensation.  Joining the D-League means Wall would be paid for his work.

Colleges run gimmicky offenses that don't usually translate to how the NBA plays.

In the D-League, he'd be learning a pro offense; as talented as guys like Blake Griffin and DeJuan Blair are, there's always the question of "how will their game translate to the pros?"  That question is probably even more pronounced for point guards like Wall.  If he plays in the D-League, there's no translation necessary - not every D-League team runs a specific NBA team's offense, but they still run offenses closer to what he'd be operating once he gets drafted.

There are also advantages for the D-League:

They get a premier young player to market and raise the league's profile.

That's really it, isn't it?  We'll come back to this in a minute.

The one person I can't see going crazy for this idea is David Stern (and all college coaches, I guess, but they're probably the group or people affiliated with basketball that I care the least about).  There were several reasons given for instituting the NBA's age limit, both official and unofficial.  One of those unofficial reasons was that players jumping from high school directly to the pros diminished the appeal of the draft for casual fans.  Martell who?  Something Perkins?  Getting these kids into the NCAA ensured that players had a good shot at being part of the March Madness marketing machine - oh, Adam Morrison, I remember he did pretty well in the tournament, I want to see where he gets drafted (whoops).

If John Wall spends a year in the D-League, though, that philosophy implodes.  The D-League's best team had a playoff game Tuesday night, and there were fewer people in the arena than work in my office building (and one floor's just for storage).  Playing in front of 2000 people if you're lucky in Erie in a game that's only broadcast online isn't the more surefire way to get your name out there among fans.

But maybe it could be.  (Sorry, I don't like the one-sentence paragraph sportswriting device either, but I guess it sort of works here.  And look at that, now it's two sentences.  Three.  Four?  Etc.)

Bringing in a (semi-semi-) marquee talent like Wall would almost assuredly lead to more coverage of the D-League, which in turn could lead to more fans coming to the games, more revenues coming in, possibly more games on NBA TV or other networks, more money to spend on improving Futurecast (hint), you get the picture.

You'll notice I've sidestepped the education question.  Certainly having a college degree is a long-term benefit, but there's nothing precluding Wall from going back and getting his degree once his playing career has begun.  If Wall is serious enough about becoming an NBA player to explore entering the 2009 draft, spending a year in Gainesville (or wherever he may ultimately decide to go) isn't going to change that.

He's talented, 19 years old and draft-eligible (FYI, draft eligible age in the NBDL is 18).  Why couldn't John Wall join the D-League?

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He could...

but he won’t. Too little National exposure for a recuit of his magnitude. Plus, he’s said before that he promised is father (now deceased) and his mother (currently ill) that he would attend college in one way or another. One year and done is barely “attending” a college, but he seems to have had his mind set on that issue.

Generally, I think this is an interesting point. I could see future kids bypassing college (especially those with inadequate test scores) to play in a league with continuous NBA scouting and against what typically shapes up to be somewhat heftier and more skilled competition than most college teams.

In the case of John Wall, whose talent is extrodinary, I’ve found from his interviews that he doesn’t seem like one to buck the trend. I think he’d be happy selecting a college and having a college experience, if only for a year.

Don’t believe me, judge for yourself

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 10:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I have been saying it myself

Brandon Jennings would be more prepared to play in the NBA after a year in the D-League then he is in Europe. I just keep going back to the success of Mike Taylor. Taylor actually learned the NBA game and made a seamless transition to the league the very next year. There were so many guys thought to be better than him, but isn’t it interesting that Taylor had a better rookie year than Sean Singletary, JR Giddens, Chris Douglas-Roberts and Bill Walker.

Someone is going to see the perks of the D-League eventually, but for some of these guys the real perks of college is that they aren’t really “students,” most of these universities are diploma mills and he gets a lot of easy co-ed sex.

If I wanted to improve as a basketball player and make my transition easier, yes I would go to the D-League. Remember, every year playing in college is one less year in pro sports. Pro Sports is nothing like any other job. You only have a finite amount of years before your body gives out. Note, I only think you should go to the D-League if being a pro is what you really, really desire. I have a college degree from a major university, but if I was as good as Wall or Jennings or Lebron, I would not have gone to college.

And if Lebron went to the D-League, the NBA and ESPN would have televised quite a few of his D-League games of that I am certain.

by hkf on Apr 17, 2009 11:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

HK...

….absolutely agree. One of the biggest shams ever is big-time college athletics. The improvement that Mike Taylor showed last year from when he arrived to the explosion in the DLeague championship game was like night and day. Never would have happened in college hoops. In fact – I would venture to say, if he finished his career at Iowa St., he would have ended right in the DLeague with a bunch more bad habits to unlearn.

A word of warning however…don’t go busting on universities that are diploma mills/bordellos…Iceman went to James Madison University and those statements would hit very close to home for him.

by Rumble on Apr 17, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

(Tear)

Reminds me of the good ole days. Let’s just all be thankful we didn’t go to Bemidji State University and Beauty School, located in India.

JMU is far less a diploma mill than Arizona State or LSU or UCONN for that matter, we were only 1-AA in football and in the Colonial Conference for basketball…..hardly diploma mill caliber.

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is a borderline bordello, however.

Now writing for Ridiculous Upside, where we knew who Mike Taylor was before you did.

by Jon L on Apr 17, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is true....

and for that I will make no excuses….though I will take some antibiotics. And maybe a bleach shower.

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hockey....really?

I make fun of your school and you ply me with hockey?

What’s a Bemidji? A Native American word translated as “river crossing lake.” Because that makes sense.

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha.

When I was in college, we had a future NBA player (of who I am friends with) who became an all-star. Anyway, this guy is a really smart guy, but he would have been more prepared for the pros had he went to the D-League then staying at the school (he and his family were focused on him getting a degree though and he was under the radar). He transferred before he made the pros. The interesting thing is that we were playing him at center and in the pros he’s an all-star SF. That doesn’t make sense. Every time I would ball with the guy I would tell him to keep working his perimeter game because if he doesn’t, he’s wasting what could the most successfully financial times of his athletic life becoming worse.

by hkf on Apr 17, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now I'm curious who this is....

though no need to name drop HKF, that would be unclassy. I’d be really interested to investigate some of the European systems. Truthfully, I don’t know a lot about their preparation and training, rules, leagues or how early they start developing pro players. But the bit I do know leads me to believe that they have far fewer restrictions on athletes developing thir games, and more recently European players have come into the NBA far more prepared and playing at a higher level than their contemporaries in the US.

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did not name drop, but if you think hard enough

You’ll figure out who it is.

Here’s what I know about the D-League. They place you in the best possible position to maximize your actual skills. You learn a few things:

- Pick and roll defense
- How to run a pick and roll
- Catching off the curl.
- Flex down-screen cuts to get open looks to shooters.

You can watch any D-League game (and I know you know this) and see that the actual quality of the game is better than any game you’ll watch in Division I. Is a regular season game of the D-League better than an NCAA tournament game? I would say yes, but I realize most would say no because brackets, gambling and the fact that it is a playoff make it exciting.

I will say that if you enjoy high-level, well played basketball and not just school spirit and nostalgia, then the D-League is a great place to watch. Maureece Rice never looked this good in college. Honestly, when I was watching him I was astounded as to how much he improved. The guy is practically money if given any room to operate.

Here’s my final thought on this right now. In one of the threads Scott mentioned that there were a lot of SEC players in the D-League. I contended that they haven’t received coaching in years. However, let’s reference the fact that the following players played at Arkansas over the last 3 years:

Ronnie Brewer, Dontell Jefferson, Darrian Townes, Steven Hill, Sonny Weems, Gary Irvin

Irvin and Brewer did not play together, but the rest did and yet the best Arkansas could do was lose to Bucknell in the first round and then in ’08 beat Indiana and get trounced by UNC (under a different coach in John Pelphrey).

Now Brewer will be an NBA mainstay, Jefferson, Hill, Weems will also be at the very least in and out of the league. Irvin and Townes will need to keep improving. How can you have that many future pro basketball players on one team and they be mediocre? What are they learning? It obviously wasn’t skills development and it obviously wasn’t how to win. So what did they learn?

Someone mentioned Mike Taylor and there is absolutely no way he gets drafted out of Iowa State. He would have been right back to the D-League. Look at Patrick Beverly, he went over to Europe and is now again trying to get drafted this year after he got kicked out of, you guessed it… Arkansas.

Is he anymore ready to run the NBA point guard position after one mediocre year full of little playing time in Europe? Is he even going to get drafted? And if he doesn’t, does he go back to Europe? I don’t get why you wouldn’t at least explore the D-League if you were 21-25? Typically these are your best years to take a shot at the league and then go to Europe and play the next 10 if it doesn’t work out.

Beverly is basically back to square one and still might have to go back to the D-League for ’09-10. Did he learn anything over in Europe that will help him in the NBA? Probably not simply because the level of athlete is not there, nor are styles of offenses and defenses the same, simply because of how close the three point line is and trapezoid lane.

by hkf on Apr 17, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just an addedum

BJ Mullens is coming out of Ohio State where he only got like 22 minutes a ballgame. Matta says he wasn’t ready and all this mess, but I contend that he will get a much better basketball education in the D-League then he ever would get anywhere else.

He will have an NBA assistant coach be sent down with him for advisement and get to work on skills specific development that he will be able to use in 50 games, to make him a much more polished player and he would never have improved as much playing for Matta as he will in the D-League. Kurt Looby played at Iowa, yet I never heard of him before. He has game and yet I never heard of him. What are these coaches doing?

Michigan had Brett Petway, Chris Hunter and Courtney Sims at the same time and all they ever did was lose in the NIT. Hunter and Sims are right on the cusp of staying in the NBA and Petway isn’t far away either. What am I missing here? What are these top-tier pro caliber athletes learning?

by hkf on Apr 17, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

From a singular basketball perspective I agree completely...

but there does come into play the post-basketball lives of these guys. Since not everyone is going to get in the NBA and make a ton of money there or overseas, you do hear guys talk about college as a chance to prepare for life after a playing career. Even if they are only there for one or two years, that is still a significant start to earning a degree. And I would imagine most players who start a degree program would be far more likely to finish than others who never even started one and would have to seek it out 10 years down the road.

A cynic would say that most of these guys could care less about an education, but I’d beg to differ. Some don’t, but the majority probably do. And while we can agree that their basketball education may suffer in college to some extent, many, in fact the majority of these players do prepare themselves for a post-playing life.

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Randy Livingston got his degree from Univ. of Phoenix

Which is a partner with the NBA in it’s continuing education efforts. If you really want to go college you always can. Remember, it’s not your degree that gets you jobs, it’s the relationships you make. If you’re a top tier player you’ll have every opportunity in the world to make connections.

There are people with degrees from Virginia, Georgetown, Yale and Duke who are currently unemployed.

by hkf on Apr 17, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are plenty of college educated people who are unemployed

But that’s a bad yardstick with which to the influence a college education can have on one’s life. I’m sure plenty of athletes have gone back post-basketball to earn a degree, but I just wonder statistically how many go back after having left college early versus those that never began at all?

Connections are well and good, many people get great jobs through professional and personal connections. But it’s hard to rely on personal connections as you’re post-playing career strategy.

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How many personal connections

can you make with an athlete that practices 20 hours a week, has study hall, that travels all over the country, that plays games, that has weight-training and classes. Unless, you’re a groupie sac-chaser or you’re a guy who is on someone’s nuts, how often can you hang out with the players and get to know them personally?

Big time collegiate athletes are more sheltered than we realize. The only reason I got to know my friend so well was because I used to eat Breakfast every morning at 7 AM (which most people at my school did not do) when they would come in before weight-room. If anyone wants a college degree I do not begrudge them, I just do not think one matters in the grand scheme of things. It’s always an individual thing.

It’s just when I hear people say you have a degree versus lots of money, is when I take exception. I have a degree and drive a bus. I don’t have a degree and I made the 780K playing in the NBA or 280K playing in Italy.

by hkf on Apr 17, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay I get it....

Earning power and a college degree are not mutually exclusive. I never said they were. I’m merely thinking about the law of averages here. An athlete who earns a degree versus someone who doesn’t on average has better chance to secure a better job post-playing years. There are always exceptions to the rule.

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I'm going with IceMan on this one

Post-career, a degree is a great thing to have – even if it doesn’t necessarily help to obtain a job.

Blogging at RidiculousUpside

by Scott Schroeder on Apr 17, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If a degree doesn't help you get a good job

Then realistically what is it really for? To remember when you dove off the roof of a frat house into a pool of beer? The walk of shame? The prestige of going into tremendous debt that you may never get out of until you’re old and gray?

What am I missing here? If my degree can’t help me get work, then I really want to know why I needed to spend all that money to get it.

by hkf on Apr 18, 2009 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha, you're missing something...

I have my degree, in Sport Management, with a minor in Journalism. My previous internship (pre-degree) got me my first full-time position, with the Minot Skyrockets of the CBA. Did my degree help? Probably. But I think my previous internship helped more.

Currently, I’m with a degree, and without a job. I do some part-time gigs and such to get me by (barely), but I certainly am having no luck saying “Hello, my name is Scott Schroeder. I have my degree. Please hire me.” Usually, I don’t even get a response.

I was told my a guy I really look up to “it’s not who you know OR what you know, but who knows what you know.”

I think that’s really what it comes down to..

Blogging at RidiculousUpside

by Scott Schroeder on Apr 18, 2009 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ouch Scott.

Don’t worry buddy we’re going to get you a job. At a Poultry Farm. Capitalized.

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please

I’m pretty selective in where I plan to work. Nowhere with any sort of grammar or English flaws.

Blogging at RidiculousUpside

by Scott Schroeder on Apr 17, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clearly....you and Jon L

are like the grammar police. I’d hate to see the two of you read over craigslist ads together.

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What can I say

I was an editor for a year and a half. Also you wouldn’t say that if you saw the first iterations of anything I put up here.

Now writing for Ridiculous Upside, where we knew who Mike Taylor was before you did.

by Jon L on Apr 17, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So all we need is to get Lebron in the D-League

and then we can be rid of the Futurecast? I kid, I kid.

You make some excellent points. The way the current system is set up, it does not allow athletes to truly maximize their potential. I wish they would revise the rules a bit….I’ve heard mention of a college baseball like system, wherein High School seniors would have to declare for the draft or commit to a college for a minimum of 3 years. Almost all of the drafted players spend time in the minor leagues and work their way to the big league…..as opposed to hogging a roster spot while “developing.”

It’d be nice if some form of this system was implemented in the NBA. But that may require the D-League bolstering its affiliations with NBA teams towards a more 1:1 ratio.

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If this happened Iceman

I personally do not believe that college coaches want this rule. Fans might, but a 3 year rule or HS, would be bad for college sports.

Take the 2009 HS class: You’re not going to get John Wall, Derrick Favors, Xavier Henry, Lance Stephenson, DeMarcus Cousins, Renardo Sidney, John Henson and a few others to stay in school for 3 years (once again, this is three years of lost pro-experience). The only reason they aren’t straight to the pros is the rule. I contend that college coaches would prefer this rule to the baseball rule, because you’re basically saying that any superstar HS kid is going to the D-League. The D-League games would be televised as well in this scenario (at least on NBATV, which by the way in 2009-10 is moving it’s place on the DirecTV dial. It will be near ESPN now and you won’t need a sports pack to have it, HUGE CHANGE)

The college coaches would rather have a Michael Beasley, Derrick Rose for one year and gone, then them never showing up. Calipari wasn’t truly competing for titles until he got that one and done talent.

by hkf on Apr 17, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No I agree completely

this would be a death knell for many college programs (Calipari), and the popularity of the college game to some extent. But I just wonder if it wouldn’t be in the best interest of the game generally and the athletes specifically.

College coaches would no doubt raise a S***storm if this rule was ever inacted. But I just wonder if the current system limits, inhibits, and ultimately hurts young developing athletes.

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It does if they want to maximize their earning potential...

We’re talking like 10-15 kids good enough to do this a year: (20-30 in an exceptional high school class). So it won’t hurt college too bad, but it would raise the profile of the D-League because more guys would play in it after college because they know they would be competing against High-Level NBA prospects and if they were succeeding it would only help how scouts and GM’s view them.

Someone is going to take that step, but it’s probably not going to happen until the baseball rule comes into effect.

by hkf on Apr 17, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Guys

Great discussion – staying on topic and being intelligent. Jon L maybe the Timothy Lucious Varner of RidiculousUpside.

Regardless, the most interesting thing here, in my opinion, is that IceMan brought up the baseball rule, as I’ll call it. Looking at the European model, they are basically at this stage, where young kids (Ricky Rubio, most recently/most known) don’t even play basketball in high school (or their version of it), but instead go directly to professional basketball.

I’m not saying this could be done (what high school athlete’s going to be willing to take a LeBron James charge?), but I think this could happen for the D-League to be a training ground for some of these younger players. Granted, we are getting into the problem of nixing education, which is already lacking, for basketball, in which only 1/4 of one’s life, at best, will be played at a level where they can earn money doing so. What I am saying is that, fort the state of basketball, which is what we as basketball fans should be reasonably concerned about, this makes the most sense.

College basketball won’t suffer like you may think it will. If all of the one and done players are gone, it may actually help the game. The big time McDonald’s All-American’s won’t be around, but there will be teams that actually have chemistry after playing together for 4 years. If you look at a team like North Dakota State (Represent!), they had five starters that had been playing together for five years (all redshirted freshmen) and made the NCAA tournament. They weren’t the greatest accumulation of talent, but they were a team, which is arguably more fun to watch.

In the end, I think if basketball in the USA is to keep advancing, we have to use the D-League as more of a training ground to get to the NBA.

Blogging at RidiculousUpside

by Scott Schroeder on Apr 17, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with all of this....

It runs into what hkf and I were talking about earlier….how do you maximize athletic potential and do the sport of basketball the most justice without comprimising the education and livelihoods of those same athletes in the future? Really interesting stuff.

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Personally, the libertarian in me says...

IF someone wants to get a free education in trade for their athletic prowess – then so be it. IF someone would prefer to get paid for the entertainment they provide and treat it like a profession – then so be it.

One of my pet peeves is the fact that college football and basketball players bring in millions of dollars to their respective university and they get next to nothing for it. College coaches – they get theirs. Non-revenue sports – off to Hawaii for a womens basketball game that won’t draw 500 people to watch it. Fat administrative people in polyester jackets (NCAA, bowl committees, etc) – they get theirs. WHY IS THIS?

My other peeve is watching college athletes who upon leaving school, commit to full time training and physical excellence. Ex- Boise State running back Ian Johnson graduates, puts on 15 lbs of muscle and drops his 40 yard dash time by .3 of a second. As a fan, why was I paying for less? As an athlete, why was Ian settling for less? Because he HAD to go to class and he HAD to get a certain GRADE level in the class in order to play?? If the dude makes an NFL team he is going make seven times more than any of his graduating peers.

D1 College football and basketball are big time money makers. We should treat it like the rest of the world does – separate it out from the institution itself, pay the school a licensing fee and run it like a business with paid players who can go to school if they want but secondary to their JOB. For everything else (non revenue sports), there is intramurals and playing local institutions for the love of the game (D3 style). Polyester jackets can be taken to a landfill and burned.

Of course, when I meet someone who is selling their “conservative-market driven-no regulation” ideology, I quickly take the conversation to this very topic…and you probably won’t be surprised that the “conservative” talk stops and the waxing on about the ol’ alma mater and tradition starts (usually culminating with what a favor the school is doing getting these young men off the street and putting them into the classroom). I usually just roll my eyes and walk away, thinking someday…someday…

I would even give up the DLeague as sacrifice for that fantasy to come true.

Rumble

by Rumble on Apr 17, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I happen to agree with almost all of this as well.

The trade of scholarship v. revenue brought in by major college sports is laughable and quite pie-in-the-sky. I’m a big Duke guy and I can admit that (took a 12 step program, but I can). You make some good points Rumble. My only worry is that by forcing athletes to either exercise their brain or their body that we eliminate opportunities for them to live a complete life.

They live a life until their mid-30’s entirely driven by the upward force of physical perfection and physical skill enhancement. But what about afterwards, when the back is sore, knees blown and body utterly used? It could create a scenario in which athletes are limited by their skills into a life devoid of learning outside the basketball court.

Okay, maybe all of that is far fetched, and to some degree that sort of system already exists, but I just worry that forcing athletes to either “compete or learn” severly limits them as people…..leave it to me to take the Humanist angle. Just a thought.

by Aisander D on Apr 17, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some points to add and clarify
  • Before “going pro” in Europe, if your talent is discovered early enough athletes in various sports can attend special sports schools/bording schools that allow for more flexibility and one-on-one tutoring to be able to align classes with intensive training from top coaches.
  • Many of the big basketball and soccer clubs have their own. Rubio’s Joventut Badalona is such a team. They have strict educational requirements that their players in the various junior teams have to fulfill. If you look at interviews with Rubio, he is constantly stressing how important that is to him and his parents. I doubt he is less educated than a US athlete of the same age.
  • Several European states have not only one more year of high school than in the US, but also a multi-tier/stage secondary school system. So even if you don’t graduate from high school, you graduate from some lower school type in fewer years (e.g. at age 16).
  • There isn’t really an organized competitive system between high schools and colleges in most European states that is in any way comparable to the NCAA, even the lower divisions. I was a semi-professional track and field athlete, and not more than a handful of times did I compete for my high school against athletes from other high schools. In most sports you start out in amateur or recreational clubs, and stay there if they have the right coaches and facilities while attending high school college in parallel or completely go pro once you can afford it (in many states and sports e.g. as an employee of the military or border patrol with essentially no duty). There basically is no layer between high school and “going pro”.

As for the overall topic, I too don’t think the D-League is really a viable option for Wall, even though it’s an interesting idea. I assume he will end up either at UNC (his home state school), or at Kentucky to form a very potent team with one or two of his teammates from the Nike Hoop Summit.

Greg Oden = Robert Parish (HOF, 4x NBA champion, 9x NBA All-Star). The only other rookie with more than 500 points, 400 rebounds, and 65 blocks in under 1400 minutes played. Since 1946.

by Norsktroll on Apr 17, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As always, excellent points

However I didn’t mean to infer that Rubio was less educated, as I was more focused on the basketball side. Education is valued as well in Europe (maybe even moreso, it seems?), but if you can play sports at a higher level, you play with a higher caliber of players. There isn’t a kid that’s just dominating his competition because his competition is comprised of high-level athletes, not just high level athletes that were point in 1991.

I’m not sure that the D-League is a viable option, but for the reasons Jon pointed out, there would be value in it for everyone involved, at least potentially.

Blogging at RidiculousUpside

by Scott Schroeder on Apr 17, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To me it is about choice...

Allowing for a) athletic competition, b) education or c) both.

Lance Allred is professional basketball player that has plenty of spare time to write three books. One would think that is someone was so inclined, they could take classes on-line if they don’t want to fall behind.

The other part of this is that the life of a professional athlete is short whereas the life of a student is literally forever. I say if one has the ability to make great money at something that has a short shelf life, they should put primary effort into that doing. Of course, it is always smart to hedge ones bets…and the smart people will be doing that.

Rumble out…

by Rumble on Apr 17, 2009 5:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ice age...

Don’t mind me…this is premature elimination syndrome in effect…with a bitter Stamps fan at the controls. i will do better when Colo rips Austin then I can tell myself the same thing would have happened to Idaho and I will be back to my normally roly poly scratch my belly self.

Rumble

by Rumble on Apr 18, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

great thread

all the way around

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Apr 18, 2009 2:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Really Terrific Stuff in this Thread.

WOW. Ridiculous Upside is Ridiculously Blowing up!

-This comment brought to you by Mr Pappagiorgio aka Mister P
Welcome to Loud City [BRING THE THUNDER] | WTLC on Twitter | WTLC on Facebook | SBNation

by Mr Pappagiorgio on Apr 18, 2009 8:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I didn’t really chime in much because I was afraid if I did it might kill the discussion (I have a habit of doing that), but also because my own thoughts on the education issue are somewhat muddled, if you couldn’t tell by my ignoring them completely. You all did a nice job with it.

Personally I don’t think Wall will join the D-League. But I also think he’d be better served from a basketball perspective by doing so.

Now writing for Ridiculous Upside, where we knew who Mike Taylor was before you did.

by Jon L on Apr 18, 2009 10:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

From a words per post standpoint

This thread has to be top 3 on SB Nation.

Also, from an excellence standpoint, this must be up there.

Blogging at RidiculousUpside

by Scott Schroeder on Apr 18, 2009 10:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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