Should Jeremy Tyler Join the D-League?
My apologies for getting this up so late today. I've been slammed at work and I keep forgetting that, because I live in the Central Time Zone now, posting at 3 means 4 pm on the East Coast. I'll strive to do better in the future. -- Jon
Weren't we just here? First high-school senior John Wall briefly explored entering the NBA Draft (which he may have been able to do, as he's in his fifth year), and now come reports that high school junior Jeremy Tyler has dropped out and will play in Europe. A lot of what I wrote about Wall applies here, but the fact that Tyler appears to be heading overseas, and that he won't have finished high school, brings up some slightly different issues, which I go into at length (because it's me) after the jump.
First and foremost is likely to be the education question. The comments on that Wall post did a good job going through the back-and-forth on whether athletes who don't graduate from college succeed at the same rate as their degreed colleagues. Beyond athletes, though, there are certainly people who have become successful without college degrees. Perhaps not always on the level of those who went through higher education, but just in my own family, many of my relatives in my mother's generation have found good careers without college.
A high school diploma, though, is another animal entirely. Workers without high school degrees have been found to make almost half of what graduates make. By forgoing his high school education now, Tyler could find he has limited options once his playing career is over.* Unless he develops a taste for smooth jazz. (Incidentally, FreeDarko's Bethlehem Shoals raised an interesting question on Twitter earlier today, which paraphrased boils down to: why is no one worried that Europeans like Ricky Rubio don't finish their education?)
If/when he goes to Europe, though, Jeremy Tyler will likely have some fantastic life experience. Colleges hype semesters abroad as a way to see and learn things students wouldn't otherwise on a relatively-sheltered college campus. Places of employment have become accepting of applicants who took a year or two off to backpack through Spain or work for the Peace Corps because they bring what they saw to the workplace. That kind of thing is invaluable, and it likely would make Tyler a more well-rounded person than he would've been had he spent a year at Louisville.
Then there's the question of whether Tyler really will develop in Europe the way he seems to assume he will. I made my feelings on the NCAA and player development clear earlier, but I think Tyler's absolutely right when he says that playing in college wouldn't adequately prepare him for the NBA.
Let's back up and describe what kind of player Tyler is: a 6'11 center. How many guys that size have been successful coming over from Europe? Dirk Nowitzki, certainly, though if I remember correctly he came into the league as more of a small forward. The Gasol brothers, sure. Andrei Kirilenko. Luis Scola. Mehmet Okur. Heck, Arvydas Sabonis. There are some others, but then you have to step down a few levels to find players like Fabricio Oberto or Darko Milicic, but I get the feeling Tyler's not going to Europe to become the second big man off the bench. On the other side are guys who washed out like Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Gordon Giricek, Juan Carlos Navarro and Jake Tsakalidis (and potentially Oleksiy Pecherov). I'm just not sure that development in Europe is any more of a sure thing than it is in America.
As a counterargument, and getting back to the success stories, Nowitzki and Pau Gasol both had to change their games somewhat when they joined the NBA, but the NBA has also changed from when Milicic was drafted. Offenses are a little more open, there are more guys like Anthony Randolph and Michael Beasley and Andray Blatche (don't laugh) who do all sorts of different things beyond what American big men were expected to do for years (or at least have the capacity to do so...Andray).
American colleges are better at developing traditional back-to-the-basket guys like Hasheem Thabeet who, while a fine player, isn't anyone's idea of the future of basketball. In that light, there is a good chance that Tyler can go to Italy or Spain and develop the kinds of skills that will help him in today's NBA. But what happens if, a year or even six months from now, Tyler and his family don't feel like they're getting the right kind of instruction in Europe?
Getting out of European basketball contracts has proven to be a thorny issue in the past, and I doubt whichever team Tyler picks will be anxious so try and leave early to come back here. At any rate, a lot of what Tyler learns in the next two years might have to be forgotten once he hits the NBA.
Then there's Sonny Vaccaro's involvement. Vaccaro helped Brandon Jennings sign with Lottomatica Roma, and depending on how you read this Atlantic article and this one from the New Republic (both found via TrueHoop), he's been on the lookout for a high school junior he can "help" for a while. In fact, according to that TNR piece, Vaccaro has major beef with the NCAA and wants to see its downfall. While I agree with a lot of Vaccaro's criticisms, I'm really, really uncomfortable with his involvement (in part for reasons delineated here), and I can't help but wonder if there's some non-NCAA-based angle he's pursuing.
To bring this (finally) to the D-League, players like Jeremy Tyler (and John Wall, and Brandon Jennings) should be talking about going to play in Austin or Bakersfield, not in Rome or Barcelona. I say that not for any xenophobic or jingoistic reasons, but because I want to see the NBA put its best product on the floor, and I truly believe the D-League offers the all-around best chance for players who aren't in the NBA to develop. Again, I don't want to repeat too much from the Wall piece, but the D-League would offer Tyler a chance to play in front of NBA scouts on a weekly basis, learn NBA offensive sets and principles and, most importantly, get to work, learn and play against NBA players.
The fact that none of these players seem to be have considered the D-League doesn't bode well, I don't think, for the future of the NBA's player development system. I obviously think the D-League does a good job with what it does now, but there is clearly more work to be done to get these kids (or, sigh, guys like Sonny Vaccaro) to come aboard.
Whatever Tyler decides, or Wall for that matter, there seems to be growing evidence that the current NBA age limit doesn't work for certain players, isn't providing them with the development they think they need to become better basketball players (though as some have argued, it wasn't supposed to).
I think the next round of collective bargaining negotiations will be too early to see any changes made (or rather, for Stern to want to see any changes made), but a point will be reached at which the league can't ignore these players and their needs anymore.
* You could even argue that this raises issues with how we refer to kids who don't finish high school as dropouts, even though they may leave for reasons other than failing grades, but that's way beyond the scope of this.
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What I left out
due to time and also because this is way too long as is, is that colleges and high school/AAU basketball may have to re-examine how they function anyway. It could also potentially lead to a system where there are two different basketball styles played in America - high school/NBA, and college. Not that high school doesn’t and won’t continue to flow into college, but the college game is already so much different than the NBA, and gets a lot of mileage out of players whose skills won’t translate to the pros, or who just aren’t skilled enough. Salim Stoudamire comes to mind, and maybe Adam Morrison.
Now writing for Ridiculous Upside, where we knew who Mike Taylor was before you did.
by Jon L on Apr 23, 2025 4:06 PM EDT reply actions
I like this move and don't at the same time
I like it from a basketball perspective, he can develop, he can face excellent competition, and he can earn some money in the meantime. But I also worry about the slippery slope this develops, and Sonny Vaccaro’s involvement is worrisome at best, extremely sketchy at worst.
I wish this guy the best, it’s not easy being a pioneer. And I can’t really vouch for not getting a high school diploma, that seems like a bad move, GED or no.
by Aisander D on Apr 23, 2025 4:38 PM EDT reply actions
I completely disagree
The level of the competition between the top competitions in Europe and the D-League is not even close. Plus, the D-League, with so much 1vs5 offensive plays and ever-changing rosters, doesn’t exactly look like the right environment for a young player to develop. Plus, in Europe there’s a great emphasis on practising (and more time available to practices) and good coaching in terms of fundamentals. Plus, a much bigger salary.
As for the contract issue in Europe, I bet he’s going to have a similar contract to Jennings: once he’s eligible for the draft, he can leave. And there are NBA scouts all over Europe. In fact, I believe there are more NBA scouts seeing European ball games than D-League ones.
There are good reasons for kids like Tyler to not go to Europe: they aren’t ready to play at such a high level and may struggle to find minutes (see Jennings). There’s the family, learning to live in a different country, etc. But from a basketball perspective, it’s a way better option than the D-League: bigger salary, better competition, better coaching.
by cordobes on Apr 23, 2025 5:08 PM EDT reply actions
I'm not sure we disagree as much as you think
and that’s probably my fault.
I agree that there are a lot of good players in Europe, and that Tyler would be facing some good competition. And you’re right, it’s probably better overall competition than the D-League.
I do think you’re wrong about the amount of isolation plays in the D-League, though. I haven’t noticed a significant number, certainly no more than are in the NBA. I’d also take some issue with your point about the coaching, not because I don’t think the coaches in Europe are good, but because there are some good coaches in the D-League as well, who could help Tyler learn the game.
I can’t really argue with the point about salaries. Contract-wise, though, what you say is true about Jennings, but my point was, what if Tyler decides he made the wrong decision before he’s eligible for the draft? He’d be over in Europe with no real recourse to get out of his deal. At least if he was in the D-League and felt the same way, it would be easier for him to go back to school or get his GED.
Ultimately, though, what I was getting at (or trying to get at) towards the end is that the landscape of ‘amateur" basketball is changing, and doing so more quickly than the NBA’s one-size-fits-all age limit is prepared for. The D-League may need to change to reflect that, but it likely won’t until a few pioneering (though I’m hesitant to use that word) players see the potential in developing in the D-League. For high school players who are ready to play in teh NBA “right now” (as Tyler reportedly is), the D-League can provide some real benefits.
Now writing for Ridiculous Upside, where we knew who Mike Taylor was before you did.
by Jon L on Apr 23, 2025 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, he can negotiate a contract that allows him to leave by the end of the year
If he isn’t producing, the team will have no interest on keeping him anyway.
There are certainly good coaches in the D-League, but not on the same level of Euroleague clubs.
I believe the NCAA and overseas leagues are great farm systems for the NBA. I can’t see the D-League establishing itself as a primary developmental league for the top players, even those who opt to bypass college - especially because they’ll never be able to compete, salary-wise, with Europe.
by cordobes on Apr 23, 2025 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Greed
It’s absurd to think players are better off developing half a world away with many different rules and a focus solely on winning rather than in America, in a system with the exact same rules as the NBA and a focus on development.
If money is such a problem, why are all these guys sticking around and playing in the D-League?
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by Scott Schroeder on Apr 23, 2025 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Many different rules?
What are you talking about? Anyway, the ULEB rules are going to change and become NBA-like, so that will stop being a problem. It’s quite amazing how so many guys in the past have developed their games in Europe. From Will Bynum to Bruce Bowen, from Anthony Parker to Mikki Moore.
Who are those guys? Who are exactly the guys who refused good contracts in Europe to play in the D-League? Most of them simply aren’t good enough to play at a high level in Europe (e.g. Rod Benson).
by cordobes on Apr 23, 2025 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Who?
Will Bynum was also a foreign D-Leaguer, fyi.
Why was Rod Benson offered a good contract in Europe if he wasn’t good enough?
Other players that played in the D-League this year instead of Europe, in no particular order:
Denham Brown, Demetris Nichols, John Edwards, Ryan Humphrey, Mickael Gelabale, DerMarr Johnson, Herbert Hill, Billy Thomas, Patrick Ewing Jr, Cezary Trybanski, Quincy Douby, Mouhamed Sene, Demarcus Nelson, Shaun Livingston, Gerry McNamara, Earl Barron, Trey Johnson, JamesOn Curry, David Noel, Damone Brown, Dwayne Jones, Romel Beck, Richie Frahm, Jared Jordan, John Lucas, Jawad Williams, Mateen Cleaves, Kevin Burleson, Pops Mensah-Bonsu, Justin Reed, Steven Hill, Malick Badiane, James Lang, Richard Hendrix, Chris Hunter, Marcus Williams, Joe Crawford, Dontell Jefferson, James White, Malik Hairston, Jermareo Davidson, Blake Ahearn and Cartier Martin.
Are you telling me all of those players, with either high level oveseas or NBA experience, couldn’t get a European contract this year?
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by Scott Schroeder on Apr 23, 2025 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
cordobes
You missed responding to this one.
If you’re here only to start a fight, please stick to doing that in the CelticsBlog forums. After looking around, I found this comment over there to be rather fitting:
“Ok cordobes - your pretty much just an openly hostile jerk when it comes to disagreements with your logic, so good for you.”
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by Scott Schroeder on Apr 24, 2025 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
And the guantlet has been thrown....
there goes the sunshine and hand holding.
by Aisander D on Apr 24, 2025 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
Some of those guys would be good enough to get contracts in Euroleague clubs, others wouldn’t. And some tried and didn’t succeed.
by cordobes on Apr 24, 2025 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
If you read more there
You would know I just don’t answer to ad hominem arguments.
I’m here to discuss if the D-League is a better environment to develop a high end prospect than the Euroleague, that’s all.
by cordobes on Apr 24, 2025 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he should play Biddy ball
ala Quin Snyder. This looks like his best bet
by Aisander D on Apr 24, 2025 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I completely disagree with your disagreement
Apparently we’re on much different trains of thought. I know you’re a Celtics fan though, so this doesn’t especially hurt my feelings.
The talent level between the D-League and the top European leagues is like comparing pineapple and apple pie. They sound similar, but in the end, they’re both different products. In the D-League, the 1vs5 is not as much as you believe, regardless of the 8 games you’ve watched of the Utah Flash, who admittedly do have an ever-changing roster due to the multiple NBA assignments. However, is that really a terrible learning environment? Learning from players that have played where you want to play rather than Euro players that are familiar with only the european style of play, for the most part?
Next, practicing and good coaching? How familiar are you with what goes on during the D-League season, save for the games you’ve watched on Futurecast? There are great coaches, including Nick Nurse, a name you’re more than likely familiar with if you follow European coaches as much as I’m led to believe from your rebuttal. The D-League hires big man coaches, guard coaches, player mentors and even coaching mentors. Their practice schedule isn’t all that different from the NBA, except they put their plays in 2 weeks before the season and the rest of the season is spent coaching the fundamentals and skills needed to get to the next level.
Bigger salary, I can’t argue. The difference is, he’ll be in the NBA for probably 15 years. I don’t think the extra 2 million is going to make a difference - that’s only if he’s able to get a Brandon Jennings type deal, including endorsements.
As for scouts: Each NBA team has at least one dedicated minor league scout, as far as I know. They’re in charge of watching the best prospects in the D-League from the 16 teams, which is not a difficult task. In Europe, a team would have to a huge team of scouts to be able to focus on each team like D-League scouts are able to do. It’d be absurd if there weren’t more European scouts than D-League scouts, as Europe has 16 teams in most countries! However, if this kid is as good as he says he is, what will it matter if scouts are able to see him or not? Won’t he be a top pick regardless?
As for Europe being such a high level of basketball, it is. So is the D-League. To prepare for the NBA, it’s better to play in the D-League. To prepare for a lifelong basketball career after your NBA chances are complete, Europe is better.
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by Scott Schroeder on Apr 23, 2025 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Nick Nurse?
You see, that’s the difference. Nurse was a coach in leagues like the Belgiam and the British, 3rd tie leagues in Europe. Do you really want to compare Nick Nurse to Ettore Messina or Obradovic? Frankly, it’s hilarious.
I think you’re underestimating the difference in terms of quality between the D-League and the good European competitions. The difference between a D-League team and an Euroleague team, even a weaker one like, say, Roma (Jennings) is bigger than the difference between a NBA team and an Euroleague team. They don’t sound similar at all.
As for the personal remarks, I’ll leave them unanswered. I’m comfortable with my knowledge from both leagues. There are many D-League players who played in Europe and vice-versa. I’ve personally talked to a couple of them. I’m certainly you can also do that. Ask them their opinion.
Plus, it’s amazing how you don’t understand that this “heir practice schedule isn’t all that different from the NBA” is a point against your thesis. Because that’s pretty bad; the time for practicing in the NBA is extremely limited when compared to Europe.
And this: “Learning from players that have played where you want to play rather than Euro players that are familiar with only the european style of play, for the most part?” Yeah, why play with Josh Childress, Jannero Pargo or Tiago Splitter when you can play with Trey Johnson and Eddie Gill? Are you aware of how many current NBA players - and I mean American ones - played in Europe? Guys like Bruce Bowen, Anthony Parker or Moore?
by cordobes on Apr 23, 2025 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright
As far as Nick Nurse being comparable to Messina or Obradovic, he’s not. Nor did I say he is. Which NBA players have the coaches you mentioned developed? I don’t know, but seems you’re familiar enough with each that you’ll be able to get me an answer. I’m interested in the result. Nurse is a good coach though, and I find it appalling that you dispute that without any reason other than naming the top 2 European coaches out of many, many coaches.
The “sound similar” portion of my comment was between pineapple and apple pie.
Again, you’re talking about Euroleague, the top 20 teams of all non-American basketball. Comparing European basketball in general is much different than comparing Euroleague basketball to the NBA.
I’ve talked to many D-League basketball players that have played in Europe. Rod Benson and Paul Shirley’s thoughts are out there for you to read, though, so I won’t worry about telling you what they say, but rather let you read their own opinions. Why would so many players want to play in the D-League for meager salaries rather than going to Europe?
European practice time, as far as I understand, isn’t about developing skills, but executing game plans and winning games. The D-League season, as you’re aware of, is 50 games rather than 82, and doesn’t have nearly the amount of back to backs, leaving for more practice’s and less fatigue toward the end of the season. Two hours of practice each day focused almost exclusively on development is not as bad as you make it seem.
I am aware of how many American players play in Europe - more than in the D, even! Childress and Pargo is a good example, but certainly not the norm. Splitter has never played in the NBA. As far as the DLeague, I don’t think it’d be terrible to learn from players with considerable NBA experience. Bruce Bowen would have played in the DLeague had there been a D-League when he was coming up. Instead, he played in the CBA. Mikki Moore is a former DLeague player. Anthony Parker wouldn’t have had to spend as much time overseas as he did if the NBADL was around, as he was lost in the shuffle before being discovered by Colangelo in an exhibition game.
How are you not in agreement when I say that, to develop for an NBA career, the D-League is a much better option.
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by Scott Schroeder on Apr 23, 2025 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Parker lost in the shuffle?
Parker was the Euroleague MVP. Do you really think Collagenlo discovered him in an exhibition game? Parker had NBA offers before he joined the Raptors. I don’t really know what to say.
Splitter never played in the NBA but he’s an excellent player - he’d easily be the D-League MVP. Just like Scola or Ginobili were already good players before joining the NBA. As for former NBA players, that was an argument of your choice; the problem is that there are dozens of former NBA players in Europe (I’d risk to say easily more than 100), dozens of former NCAA standouts plus all the quality European players.
And this is what matters: the difference on level is abyssal. The environment is much more demanding. The guys he’s going to practice with are much better players. And this how you develop your skills: playing with better guys than yourself.
NCAA and D-League coaches also play to win. The idea that you are either developing players or playing to win is a false dichotomy. Playing to win is important when developing players; that’s why successful college programs have so many NBA players among their alumni.
Finally Nurse: the thing about Nurse is that the only reason I know him is because I’m a basketball junkie. Nurse coached at a very low level in Europe. I mean, really low.
by cordobes on Apr 23, 2025 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
So Parker stayed in Europe for six years even though he had NBA offers every season? Do you have any backing for this? I realize he wasn’t discovered in an exhibition game, but that’s what ultimately brought him back to the NBA.
Splitter is an excellent player, I never disagreed, though you brought him up in response to the discussion of learning from players with NBA experience, which he is lacking. Why must you use all of Europe? Of course an entire country has more former NCAA standouts and NBA players than a league of 160 players. Why wouldn’t it?
What’s your infatuation with Europe? Where are you from that you know the environment is much more demanding? You’re saying as soon as Tyler enters the D-League, he’s the best player in the D-League? There wouldn’t be one player better than him? Or one coach that could teach him something? Those only exist in Europe?
NCAA and D-League coaches do play to win, but not exclusively to win. They aren’t going to have drop down to D2 or the PBL if they have a bad season.
I didn’t ask how you know about Nurse, I asked why you think he’s not a good coach. Is it philosophy? Player development? Attitude? What goes into him being so much lower than the top two coaches in Europe? He was successful in Europe, regardless of the level, but this doesn’t matter. I’m wondering why you think he’s not a good coach.
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by Scott Schroeder on Apr 23, 2025 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Geez.. are you angry?
So Parker stayed in Europe for six years even though he had NBA offers every season?
Have I said “every season”? Of course not. Do you really think the Euroleague MVPS, guys like Ginobili, Scola or Parker, really need exhibition games to get to the NBA?
I don’t need to use all Europe - just the Euroleague.
What infatuation? Saying that the level of competition is much higher and the environment much more demanding than in the D-League? That’s a fact. I don’t know what to say if you don’t understand it’s two completely different realities.
Then, I’ve never said Nurse was a bad coach - he’s just an unproven one at a high level. To compare him with, say, the coaches of Euroleague level clubs is absurd. Ask Nurse if he had the chance of coaching a Euroleague club what would he do. Anyway, I usually just ignore strawman arguments “You’re saying as soon as Tyler enters the D-League, he’s the best player in the D-League, etc.”, so I believe I’ve answered all your legit questions.
by cordobes on Apr 24, 2025 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Pargo and Childress stats
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=001276
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=001225
Now compare this with what the number they’d put if they were playing in the D-League.
by cordobes on Apr 24, 2025 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
However, if this kid is as good as he says he is, what will it matter if scouts are able to see him or not?
Good point.
But I just brought up the scouting issue because the post says this: “but the D-League would offer Tyler a chance to play in front of NBA scouts on a weekly basis”. It’s a non-factor. He’ll be scouted heavily in Europe as well.
by cordobes on Apr 24, 2025 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
True
I didn’t write the post.
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by Scott Schroeder on Apr 24, 2025 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, just finish friggin' high school.
This move is just dumb. His dad should be ashamed of himself, sending his son to Europe to play some basketball. Get a diploma and attend college for a year, then go to the NBA. What happens if he blows his knee out in Europe? Working at McDonalds ain’t going to pay the bills. Being a black person myself, I just shake my head at people who are all about “gimme, gimme right now.” Good luck!
by E-ROC on Apr 23, 2025 5:50 PM EDT reply actions
Exactly
I think best thing he could do is stay in high school. Unfortunately, Sonny Vaccaro is continuing to ruin American basketball. Last year, it was Jennings, this year, it’s Tyler. What’s next?
I don’t care if he doesn’t go to college, we argued last time that the benefit of college isn’t there if they’re not going to use it. They may as well go to the D-League for a season, get some seasoning, and hit the NBA the following season.
The greed, regardless of race, is ridiculous.
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by Scott Schroeder on Apr 23, 2025 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Dumb move
This kid is not going to like overseas very much. I hear Brandon Jennings didn’t like it that much and I really don’t understand not finishing his senior year of high school. What if he fails? No degree to fall back on if he gets injured or just doesn’t pan out. This is way to greedy should have waited 2 more years because it would have paid off for the kid after his basketball career. I hope this doesn’t start a trend.
by stneff70 on Apr 23, 2025 6:12 PM EDT reply actions
Brandon doesn't like it
I don’t remember who wrote the article, but he’s been interviewed about it.
The degree is the biggest problem. At the least, he should finish high school.
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by Scott Schroeder on Apr 23, 2025 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Guys, sorry to break the news for you
but there are high-schools in Europe.
by cordobes on Apr 23, 2025 7:05 PM EDT reply actions
Well aware of this fact
He plans to attain his GED overseas, while being home schooled. Is a GED the same as a high school education? Will he have time to focus on school with the amount of practice time that Europe has?
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by Scott Schroeder on Apr 23, 2025 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
OF course to the last question
That’s exactly what European kids like Bargnani or Rubio or Gasol do. Generally, European clubs only practice once a day (except during training camp), either in the morning or in the afternoon and there are days off.
The GED I didn’t know about, but I’ve googled the wikipedia article and it says this:
General Educational Development (or GED) tests are a group of five rigorous subject tests which (when passed) certifies that the taker has American or Canadian high school-level academic skills.
by cordobes on Apr 23, 2025 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You weren't familiar with a GED?
Interesting.
In my opinion, and I’m sure many others, it’s much better to have a high school diploma rather than a GED. This isn’t something I was worried about, as the more education, the better.
Earlier, you said this:
Plus, it’s amazing how you don’t understand that this "[T]heir practice schedule isn’t all that different from the NBA" is a point against your thesis. Because that’s pretty bad; the time for practicing in the NBA is extremely limited when compared to Europe.
If European clubs practice either in the morning or afternoon, just once a day, with days off, this is very similar to the amount of time D-League teams practice.
We’re getting closer!
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by Scott Schroeder on Apr 23, 2025 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Having some experience with this...
a GED and HS diploma are literally equals, except for the maturity and experience gained from finishing a traditional HS lesson plan.
As for practice time…what will it matter if the European leagues allow for more practice time if the player is constantly on the crapper after eating a bad suvlaki? Clearly getting the runs in Croatia from some kind of boiled ham stew is not going to help a player’s development, that we can agree on.
You ain’t getting no virus-infused hamburgers in North Dakota, that’s for sure. So there’s the upside to living, balling, and developing stateside. The comforts of home.
by Aisander D on Apr 23, 2025 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
His father says he's going to get homeschool him
And he will be there with him overseas to ease his transition and allow him to play pro for two years. So he gets his equivalency of a degree in the same way Freddy Adu did and/or child actors, musicians do. I can’t turn a blind eye to one group and then condemn Tyler and his family. If it’s wrong for him, it’s wrong for everyone (and who am I to decide what someone does with their life).
The only reason why Tyler is not going to the D-League (and you only have to be 18 to be eligible) is because he can make more money for two years. For the top tier players (like he is, he’s a top 5-10 prospect in the 2010 class), it makes sense.
People keep saying the NBA needs a developed minor league system, but they seem to think that the NBA can just wake up one day and have 30 stable minor league teams. It takes time before the D-League is the main conduit to the NBA and it probably will not happen for another ten years.
It may be a disaster for Tyler, but I don’t think it will be. If the Williams sisters can do it, if Freddy Adu can do it, if Ricky Rubio can do it. All became pros at the age of 14.
by hkf on Apr 23, 2025 9:43 PM EDT reply actions
Is his father qualified?
Or will they be spending money on that? Not that it matters, but in order to get an education, they should have someone that’s actually able to teach him life lessons rather than greed.
I’m going to shy away from any comparisons with child actors or musicians and athletes. An elite-athlete has a shelf life of about 20 years, max. A good actor or musician? Probably 3x as long of a career, lessening the need for an education beyond their chosen profession. Athletes may need further education however, as well-documented by ESPN on Lenny Dykstra, who went straight to the minors and now lives a life of lies and borrowing (This is such a crazy story).
He turns 18 in June, meaning he would be eligible. I’m not sure if you were referencing that or not, but just to keep things clear. He can make money, but should that be his only goal if he’s such a sure fire NBA prospect? Wouldn’t learning the NBA system help more than the $2 million max he’ll make over the next two seasons in Europe?
I definitely agree with you that it does indeed take time to establish a true minor league system for basketball. The model is there though, now we just need the owners.
He can do it, I’m sure. But Adu did struggle initially when joining MLS, and had confidence issues after that. If Tyler struggles for two years, what might happen isn’t going to be pretty.
Blogging at RidiculousUpside
by Scott Schroeder on Apr 23, 2025 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
A child actor or musician could have possibly 3x the career, but that’s not guaranteed either. His father could easily hire a private teacher to allow him to finish his high school requirements. Now whether or not he wants to go to college, he will simply have to do so as a normal student rather than an athlete.
This is a choice and he’s making it, but if Ricky Rubio, Tony Parker, Boris Diaw, Mickael Pietrus and other European basketball players can go pro, then I have nothing against him doing so. The European system allows you to be a professional and earn a high school diploma. I just don’t see this as a big deal.
by hkf on Apr 24, 2025 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
hkf
To be clear, I never argued that he shouldn’t go pro.
The argument was D-League vs. Europe for his development.
Blogging at RidiculousUpside
by Scott Schroeder on Apr 24, 2025 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Good idea, wrong kid to try it
I have no problem with the concept and idea of him trying to go to Europe. College basketball has turned into garbage and there are few things more overrated than your senior year of high school so I’m fine with the concept. The problem is he’s 6-11 and only managed to lead his high school team to a 15-11 record in San Diego. A 6-11 big time recruit and he can barely get a H.S. team over .500?!? He’s not good enough to compete for PT in Europe, the D-League or anywhere as a pro.
by LoDo on Apr 23, 2025 11:01 PM EDT reply actions
So what would you suggest?
Blogging at RidiculousUpside
by Scott Schroeder on Apr 23, 2025 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
3 starters were kicked off the team
And his high school coach was suspended. His high school season was a disaster but not because of him.
by hkf on Apr 24, 2025 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm, in all fairness
the second tallest player in his team was 6’2’’. But I agree with you that he’ll struggle to find PT in Europe, at least at a very high level.
That’s basically the reason the American nativists in this thread can calm down: only a very small number of these kids are actually good enough to interest European clubs.
by cordobes on Apr 24, 2025 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I said the same thing another place...
Only a small group of people will ever have interest from a professional club overseas anyway.
by hkf on Apr 24, 2025 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
This is understandable
That’s why I wonder why he’d be better off going to Europe to develop than the D-League?
Blogging at RidiculousUpside
by Scott Schroeder on Apr 24, 2025 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Because if he's good enough
He’ll play at a much higher level and that will help his development.
by cordobes on Apr 24, 2025 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Euroleague is not all that
The last time i heard guys who went to europe from the nba were crying because they weren’t getting paid, now they’re coming back to the nba, some of the food is crappy, and the last thing i heard was a scrub by the name of Surunas Jasikivicus was tearing up the Euroleague.
by Waterade124 on Apr 24, 2025 12:43 AM EDT reply actions
lol
Sarunas Jasikevicius in this season Euroleague: 9 pts, 2.8 asts, 2 TO, 1.4 rbs in 20 minutes → tearing up
Sarunas Jasikevicius in his rookie NBA season: 7.3 pts, 3 ats, 1.5 TO, 2 rbs in 20 minutes → complete scrub
by cordobes on Apr 24, 2025 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions


















